I am not an apologist for the WTS, but this is my understanding of their understanding.
Nebuchadnezzar's dream was fulfilled in Nebuchadnezzar. What happened to Nebuchadnezzar is the prophecy that gives them the 2520 years. He was down and out for 7 "times", which means 7 lots of 360 days.
Unfortunately for the WTS, the Babylonians never had a year that was 360 days long.
How is it possible that the King who destroyed Jerusalem could symbolize God's Kingdom? How is it possible that the King of BABYLON could symbolize GOD's organization?
Doug
Doug Mason
JoinedPosts by Doug Mason
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7
EXPOSED: THE WT tweaks verses to fit their own agenda.
by pixel inok, here's something i noticed when i was in the book study this week, related to the "seven time" prophecy, the verses are daniel 4:19-32.
related to the interpretation of nebuchadnezzar's dream, daniel wish the dream to apply to those who hate nebuchadnezzar and the interpretation, to his adversaries.
verse 22 says explicitly that the big tree is him, nebuchadnezzar.
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Doug Mason
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For Current JW's- Watchtower Society Examined!
by Vinny in" {wt jun 15 1957 370} .
" {ga feb 4 1931 293-4} .
" {wt jun 15 1957 370} .
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Doug Mason
Vinny,
A very interesting chronological listing. Well researched.
You wrote: "Without THAT foundation of belief that this religious organization IS the one truth on earth, everything else involved with the religion begins to fall apart."
I WONDER WHAT PEOPLE BELIEVE IS THE FOUNDATION THAT PROVIDES THE AUTHORITY THAT THE "ANOINTED REMNANT" CLAIMS.
In answering this question, one must beware of using circular reasoning.
For example, it is wrong to reason that "The Parable of the Faithful and Discreet Slave is prophesying about the 'Anointed' of the WTS because the 'Anointed' of the WTS says this is how to interpret the Parable".
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Did Russell change his expectations re 1914?
by Doug Mason inbefore starting this post, i would like to take this opportunity to "thank" all you people for your great help.
this is a good pool of knowledge and understanding.
in a previous post, i asked about the change that russell made to the dimensions of the great pyramid.
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Doug Mason
Stev,
Your answers are most interesting and helpful! In the process, they have raised many thoughts.
1. Despite the passage of 100 years, you have tried to climb into the dynamic of CTR’s time and into CTR’s thinking. This is excellent and demonstrates the methods we should employ when trying to understand Scripture.
2. When CTR wanted to amend the dimensions of the pyramid in his book, could the printer have imposed physical limitations on the extent of the changes he could accommodate in the space? (When CTR made the changes he was able to fit in, he would have known that his contemporaries would understood what he was getting at.)
3. There were no external contemporary manmade or natural calamities that caused CTR to alter the dimensions of the Pyramid. Indeed, his action was likely to be the source of derision from his opponents.
4. Did CTR believe that the outcomes of his changes to the Pyramid’s dimensions affect his overall prophetic framework?
5. Did CTR see that the other dates were equally significant as 1914? Did he foresee any events to say 1915 or to 1918?
6. Was his focus not so much with one date – 1914 – as with a system, of which 1914 was open to further thought?
7. The Great War broke out in August 1914, whereas CTR had been pointing to October 1914. Does this mean he saw those 2 or 3 months of fighting as being the final event of the “Time of Trouble”?
I wonder if we would have known anything about this movement if CTR and Rutherford were not such prolific writers and aggressive marketers.
Doug
Melbourne -
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Did Russell change his expectations re 1914?
by Doug Mason inbefore starting this post, i would like to take this opportunity to "thank" all you people for your great help.
this is a good pool of knowledge and understanding.
in a previous post, i asked about the change that russell made to the dimensions of the great pyramid.
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Doug Mason
Dear Lady Liberty,
Thank you for pointing out this site to me.
I am slightly familiar with a little of the material mentioned in the article, which I found very interesting. I have a photocopy of the chapter on the 2520 years from John Brown's book written in 1823. I am surprised that the article did not mention the eschatalogical writings of the Alchemist/Scientist, Sir Isaac Newton, who employed the year/day idea in his interpretations.
The concern I tried to express in my post is that CTR's prophetic framework presumed that the "Time of Trouble" commenced in 1874 but his "stretched" pyramid said that it began in 1914. And CTR's prophetic framework anticipated "peace" with 1914, not the start of the great "Time of Trouble".
Thank you for your welcome.
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Did Russell change his expectations re 1914?
by Doug Mason inbefore starting this post, i would like to take this opportunity to "thank" all you people for your great help.
this is a good pool of knowledge and understanding.
in a previous post, i asked about the change that russell made to the dimensions of the great pyramid.
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Doug Mason
Stev!
I am deeply indebted to you. Thank you!
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12
Did Russell change his expectations re 1914?
by Doug Mason inbefore starting this post, i would like to take this opportunity to "thank" all you people for your great help.
this is a good pool of knowledge and understanding.
in a previous post, i asked about the change that russell made to the dimensions of the great pyramid.
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Doug Mason
Before starting this post, I would like to take this opportunity to "Thank" all you people for your great help. This is a good pool of knowledge and understanding.
In a previous Post, I asked about the change that Russell made to the dimensions of the Great Pyramid. The change, which was made around 1905, moved the start of the "Time of Trouble" from 1874 to the end of 1914.
It is my understanding that CTR expected 1914 to usher in an era of unprecedented peace, when man will learn to be still, under the auspices of the Jewish nation.
How can this be reconciled with a move of the start of the Time of Trouble to the end of 1914?
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Asherah, the wife of YHWH
by veradico inas we all know, the bible tends to overlook and often look down on women.
the priests and scribes who were in charge of it did everything they could to emphasize the maleness of god, thus supporting the social organization in place.
however, we can also detect in their writings the obvious fact that most of the people and many of the nobles of israel liked to turn to goddesses like asherah, who they could expect to be more sympathetic and compassionate than yhwh, and that the jewish people, in their legendary past, had other gods and goddesses (think of rachel's teraphim, get a bible commentary that talks about how the ot interacts with near eastern myths in attempting to have yhwh absorb the characteristics and titles of other gods and goddesses, note the lateness of even the prophetic condemnation of asherah compared to the early condemnation of ba'al worship).
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Doug Mason
Have you read this book?
"It Ain't Necessarily So: Investigating the Truth of the Biblical Past" by Matthew Sturgis (see the Index at the rear of the book), ISBN 0 7472 4510 X
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Who stretched the pyramid? When? Why?
by Doug Mason inthe site http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/1874.htm lists the quotations related to the dimensions of the great pyramid.
the first quotation comes from the 1904 edition of millennial dawn, vol 3, p.342.
part of the quotation says: "the close of 1874 was the chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation".
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Doug Mason
The site http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/1874.htm lists the quotations related to the dimensions of the Great Pyramid.
The first quotation comes from the 1904 edition of Millennial Dawn, vol 3, p.342. Part of the quotation says: "the close of 1874 was the chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation".
The second quotation comes from the 1910 edition of Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3, p.342. Part of the quotation says: "the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation".
Did Russell change the dimensions? Did Russell change the beginning of the Time of Trouble to 1914? If so, when did he do that? And why?
I had thought he expected that with 1914, "man would learn to be still".
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I'm looking for hard to find WT publications
by Lady Lee in1879 songs of the bride-c.t.
russell1887 arp slip (arp tract)1889 no.
01-do the scriptures teach that eternal torment is the wages of sin?:-c.t.
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Doug Mason
I have a photocopy of "A Conspiracy Exposed"
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ROME on HBO
by Sasha inon sundays episode the camera panned past a man who had beeen crucified.
i noticed that he was on a pole, and not a cross.
is that because christianity had not been introduced yet?
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Doug Mason
You ask: "Is that because Christianity had not been introduced yet?"
The implement used by the Romans to kill their victims has nothing to do with Christianity. It was a Roman implement, whatever the shape.
BTW, the first Christians were a small Jewish sect.
Doug